Legislature(1999 - 2000)

02/10/2000 01:40 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                                                                                
GENERAL SUBJECT(S): Commonwealth North                                                                                          
    Alaska's Asset Portfolio                                                                                                    
Permanent Fund Earnings                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The following overview was taken in log note format.  Tapes                                                                     
and handouts will be on file with the House Finance                                                                             
Committee through the 21st Legislative Session, contact 465-                                                                    
2156. After the 21st Legislative Session they will be                                                                           
available through the Legislative Library at 465-3808.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Time Meeting Convened: 1:40 p.m.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Tape(s):                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT:                                                                                                                        
X                                                                                                                               
Representative G. Davis                                                                                                         
X                                                                                                                               
Co-Chair Therriault                                                                                                             
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Foster                                                                                                           
X                                                                                                                               
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Grussendorf                                                                                                      
X                                                                                                                               
Vice Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Moses                                                                                                            
Absent                                                                                                                          
Representative Austerman                                                                                                        
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Phillips                                                                                                         
X                                                                                                                               
Representative J. Davies                                                                                                        
Absent                                                                                                                          
Representative Williams                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT: Duane Heyman, Executive Director, Commonwealth North;                                                             
Nancy Bear Usera, Vice President and Co-Chair, Managing for Maximum                                                             
Return Study Group, Commonwealth North; Joe Griffith, Co-Chair,                                                                 
Permanent Fund Earnings Phase II Study Group, Commonwealth North                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
LOG                                                                                                                             
SPEAKER                                                                                                                         
DISCUSSION                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE HFC 00 - 31                                                                                                                
SIDE 1                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
031                                                                                                                             
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
Convened the meeting at 3:40 p.m.                                                                                               
121                                                                                                                             
Nancy Bear Usera,                                                                                                               
Co-Chair, Managing                                                                                                              
for Maximum Return                                                                                                              
Study Group,                                                                                                                    
Commonwealth North                                                                                                              
Observed that Commonwealth North's                                                                                              
mission is to educate its members and all                                                                                       
Alaskans on relevant public policy issues                                                                                       
and to assist in their resolution.                                                                                              
248                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Noted that she co-chaired a study group,                                                                                        
Managing for Maximum Return and provided                                                                                        
members with handout #1, Managing for                                                                                           
Maximum Return (copy on file). Observed                                                                                         
that the Alaska Housing Finance                                                                                                 
Corporation (AHFC) and the Alaska                                                                                               
Industrial Development and Export                                                                                               
Authority (AIDEA) were set up to assist                                                                                         
in economic development. The group looked                                                                                       
at the broad range of state assets to                                                                                           
determine if there were additional ways                                                                                         
that they could be used to generate                                                                                             
revenues.                                                                                                                       
421                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Noted that the study group based their                                                                                          
work on a series of assumptions. The                                                                                            
first assumption was that the assets,                                                                                           
which are derived from Alaska's land                                                                                            
grant, should be managed consistent with                                                                                        
the constitutional mandate to maximize                                                                                          
their use and benefit to the people of                                                                                          
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
438                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
The second assumption was that the                                                                                              
constitutional prohibition against                                                                                              
dedicated funds is recognized as a policy                                                                                       
principle, which provides that the public                                                                                       
interest is served when all state                                                                                               
revenues, regardless of source, are                                                                                             
available for appropriation by the                                                                                              
legislature to meet Alaska's total needs.                                                                                       
550                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
The third assumption was that there are                                                                                         
two types of returns derived from an                                                                                            
asset's management: financial and                                                                                               
beneficial, and each must directly or                                                                                           
indirectly benefit all the people by                                                                                            
serving a public purpose.                                                                                                       
578                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Observed that corporations for specific                                                                                         
purpose pay dividends, but that the                                                                                             
Permanent Fund itself makes no                                                                                                  
contribution back to the state of Alaska.                                                                                       
672                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
The fourth assumption was that asset                                                                                            
management is most effective within a                                                                                           
structure, which provides flexibility for                                                                                       
maximizing returns while assuring                                                                                               
accountability to the state and its                                                                                             
people.                                                                                                                         
690                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Observed that there is a tendency for the                                                                                       
legislature to micro manage.                                                                                                    
720                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
The fifth assumption was that performance                                                                                       
measures for determining efficiency,                                                                                            
results and returns are essential for                                                                                           
public accountability. Noted that more is                                                                                       
better tends to be the measurement.                                                                                             
Recommended that similar benchmarks be                                                                                          
established.                                                                                                                    
826                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
The sixth assumption was that private                                                                                           
enterprise should be the first option for                                                                                       
obtaining expertise, goods and services                                                                                         
to develop public assets. To the extent                                                                                         
that public sector programs compete with                                                                                        
the private sector, their activities                                                                                            
should proceed in a manner, which                                                                                               
minimizes adverse effects on private                                                                                            
sector competition. Pointed out that the                                                                                        
Department of Corrections sells furniture                                                                                       
at the market rate.                                                                                                             
876                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
The last assumption was that maximizing                                                                                         
returns for all assets will enhance                                                                                             
revenue to the state as well as provide                                                                                         
greater diversity and stability of state                                                                                        
revenues. Examples can be found to better                                                                                       
manage the state's real estate. Many                                                                                            
attempts to establish a better management                                                                                       
are dealt with individually without cross                                                                                       
communication.  Noted that there are a                                                                                          
dozen bills before the legislature                                                                                              
dealing with management of state assets.                                                                                        
None deal with the whole picture.                                                                                               
1028                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Discussed the study group's findings in                                                                                         
relationship to missions and goals.                                                                                             
Observed that vague mission statements                                                                                          
leave activities and management of assets                                                                                       
subject to individual interpretation.                                                                                           
1068                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Observed that activity rather than                                                                                              
returns frequently defines goals. She                                                                                           
maintained that there is a tendency to                                                                                          
shift funding and responsibilities off                                                                                          
budget.                                                                                                                         
1090                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Noted efforts to have AHFC  be                                                                                                  
responsible for deferred maintenance at                                                                                         
the university. She questioned if this is                                                                                       
central to their mission.                                                                                                       
1150                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Cautioned that assets are not loaded up                                                                                         
with things that are convenient.                                                                                                
1173                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Reviewed the study group's findings                                                                                             
regarding performance standards and                                                                                             
accountability. There is no monetary                                                                                            
value assigned to or reported on                                                                                                
beneficial returns.                                                                                                             
1211                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Questioned how subsidy programs, such as                                                                                        
the railroad,  can be tracked. Concluded                                                                                        
that the public's interests are not                                                                                             
defined or reported. Part of the                                                                                                
railroad's purpose is to provide a                                                                                              
transportation corridor. Pointed out that                                                                                       
the dividend is a great example of a                                                                                            
subsidy program. She questioned what is                                                                                         
the overall benefit of the dividend.                                                                                            
1271                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Performance measures, where they exist,                                                                                         
are often tied to activities rather than                                                                                        
to mission or returns.                                                                                                          
1294                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Discussed the study group's findings                                                                                            
regarding structure. Regulatory and asset                                                                                       
management functions within a single                                                                                            
agency are often incompatible for                                                                                               
achieving optimum results. She noted that                                                                                       
it is hard to develop something while                                                                                           
being the gatekeeper. Public corporations                                                                                       
are "halfway houses to privatization".                                                                                          
Lines between development and regulatory                                                                                        
responsibility are clearer.                                                                                                     
1331                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Operational mandates created in statute                                                                                         
and regulation do not allow for the                                                                                             
flexibility necessary to efficiently                                                                                            
adapt to evolving missions and                                                                                                  
priorities. She questioned if we are                                                                                            
managing assets well when managers' hands                                                                                       
are tied. Policy makers should focus on                                                                                         
policy.                                                                                                                         
1379                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Independent agencies have greater                                                                                               
flexibility than executive branch                                                                                               
departments in operations and funding.                                                                                          
1406                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Assets are managed independently, with no                                                                                       
portfolio integration that would ensure                                                                                         
diversification of risk and return,                                                                                             
compatibility in objectives, performance                                                                                        
standards and measures, and coordination                                                                                        
of activities and reporting. Pointed out                                                                                        
that the Alaska Marine Highway System is                                                                                        
not necessarily considered in the greater                                                                                       
context of being part of the                                                                                                    
transportation infrastructure.                                                                                                  
1442                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Discussed the study group's findings.                                                                                           
Noted that the state's annual budget                                                                                            
process does not provide effective                                                                                              
integrated review of asset management,                                                                                          
does not promote a long-term view of                                                                                            
returns, and instead focuses on                                                                                                 
operational activity as opposed to                                                                                              
results.                                                                                                                        
1451                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
The vagaries of the annual appropriation                                                                                        
process and the volatility of state                                                                                             
general fund revenues influence asset                                                                                           
development potential.  Noted that                                                                                              
schools are being funded this year, while                                                                                       
waterwater systems were funded in the                                                                                           
previous year. Political priority                                                                                               
determines investment dollars.                                                                                                  
1462                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Availability of, and access to,                                                                                                 
alternative funding sources influence                                                                                           
operational activity.                                                                                                           
1471                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Politicization of management appointments                                                                                       
creates personnel turnover, which impairs                                                                                       
continuity and returns. Stable management                                                                                       
increases efficient operations.                                                                                                 
1512                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
There are few management or budgetary                                                                                           
incentives for maximizing returns.                                                                                              
Stressed the need to create incentives                                                                                          
for other corporations.                                                                                                         
1583                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Long-term plans, and the accumulation of                                                                                        
capital to meet long-term needs, may be                                                                                         
used for political purposes, which                                                                                              
creates a disincentive for strategic                                                                                            
asset management. Pointed out that it is                                                                                        
the nature of beast to be subject to                                                                                            
political influence.                                                                                                            
1615                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Observed that special interests                                                                                                 
significantly influence returns and                                                                                             
allocation of returns.                                                                                                          
1652                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Reviewed recommendations of the study                                                                                           
group. Noted that roles and                                                                                                     
responsibilities need to be clarified.                                                                                          
1672                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Noted that management performance and                                                                                           
agency operations should be measured.                                                                                           
Acknowledged that AHFC should not be                                                                                            
measured in the same manner or have the                                                                                         
same standards as ASTF.                                                                                                         
1703                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Stated that the dilemma is, what is the                                                                                         
right amount. What are the expectations                                                                                         
of Wall Street in regards to bonds? She                                                                                         
stressed that the same measures as for                                                                                          
other bonds should be used.                                                                                                     
1743                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Concluded that assets should be managed                                                                                         
as a portfolio. Recommended that assets                                                                                         
should be viewed in light of their total                                                                                        
potential and risk and reward be weighed.                                                                                       
1774                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Recommended that returns be paid to the                                                                                         
general fund. Emphasized that subsidizes                                                                                        
are wonderful, but that the general                                                                                             
welfare should be served.                                                                                                       
1807                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Concluded that a system needs to be                                                                                             
created to achieve the recommendations,                                                                                         
using the best pieces of the existing                                                                                           
model.                                                                                                                          
1853                                                                                                                            
Vice Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Acknowledged the need for help to                                                                                               
translate Alaska's budget situation to                                                                                          
the public. Pointed out that the                                                                                                
permanent fund dividend comes from the                                                                                          
general fund. Noted that ASTF doesn't                                                                                           
give the state a dividend. Maintained                                                                                           
that the permanent fund dividend                                                                                                
encourages growth through the demand for                                                                                        
public services. Questioned if income tax                                                                                       
is part of the equation.                                                                                                        
2026                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Agreed that the permanent fund dividend                                                                                         
comes from the general fund. Acknowledged                                                                                       
that ASTF investments provide no return.                                                                                        
Suggested that grants could bring                                                                                               
ownership interest of patents to the                                                                                            
state of Alaska.                                                                                                                
2092                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Observed that Commonwealth North has                                                                                            
serious concern about the lack of growth                                                                                        
in the state's economy. Pointed out that                                                                                        
$800 million dollars of the state's cash                                                                                        
economy comes from a dividend program.                                                                                          
Pointed out that withdrawal of the                                                                                              
permanent fund dividend could create a                                                                                          
problem. Emphasized the need for                                                                                                
increased state productivity.                                                                                                   
2146                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Foster                                                                                                                          
Pointed out that there is a paradox in                                                                                          
that there is a large constituency that                                                                                         
works for government.                                                                                                           
2243                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Observed that some things have to be run                                                                                        
as a public service. Stressed that                                                                                              
maximizing federal returns does not                                                                                             
necessarily help build a credible                                                                                               
economy.                                                                                                                        
2333                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Foster                                                                                                                          
Another paradox is that a healthy economy                                                                                       
hurts the state's budget. The healthier                                                                                         
the economy, the more people and the more                                                                                       
services are needed; while no one pays                                                                                          
for any thing.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE CHANGE, HFC 00                                                                                                             
- 31, SIDE 2                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
31                                                                                                                              
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Responded that the state needs to look at                                                                                       
jobs that will be productive and create                                                                                         
wealth for the state and for individuals.                                                                                       
70                                                                                                                              
Representative                                                                                                                  
Phillips                                                                                                                        
Referred to pages 6 and 7 of handout #1.                                                                                        
Noted the difference between financial                                                                                          
returns and beneficial returns. Pointed                                                                                         
out that mission creep is important to                                                                                          
consider.                                                                                                                       
212                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Discussed the difference between                                                                                                
financial returns and beneficial returns.                                                                                       
Beneficial returns benefit individuals                                                                                          
directly through program subsidies.                                                                                             
Beneficial returns serve a public purpose                                                                                       
and individuals benefit from using the                                                                                          
service. The holder of an AHFC mortgage                                                                                         
receives beneficial returns. Financial                                                                                          
returns are paid to the state and are                                                                                           
available for appropriation for the                                                                                             
general welfare. Stressed that it is                                                                                            
difficult to measure specific returns.                                                                                          
347                                                                                                                             
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Quoted Albert Einstein "Everything that                                                                                         
counts can't be counted and everything                                                                                          
that can be counted doesn't necessarily                                                                                         
count."                                                                                                                         
461                                                                                                                             
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Pointed out that basic resource                                                                                                 
industries don't benefit the state in                                                                                           
relationship to the cost to the state.                                                                                          
Used the example of mining as an industry                                                                                       
that is disconnected from the state                                                                                             
economy, which could be connected with an                                                                                       
income tax.                                                                                                                     
569                                                                                                                             
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Spoke in support of ASTF. Emphasized that                                                                                       
ASTF tries to diversify the economy.                                                                                            
There is a payback requirement with every                                                                                       
grant.                                                                                                                          
652                                                                                                                             
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Disagreed that AHFC does not pay a                                                                                              
dividend.                                                                                                                       
689                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Emphasized that activities are sometimes                                                                                        
measured instead of output. Need to do a                                                                                        
better job raising money. Pointed out                                                                                           
that the issue with an income tax is                                                                                            
which pocket it will come out of and what                                                                                       
mechanisms will be used.                                                                                                        
813                                                                                                                             
Representative Moses                                                                                                            
Emphasized that a large dividend would                                                                                          
attract people to the state and create                                                                                          
further demand for services.                                                                                                    
861                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Maintained that one of the unfortunate                                                                                          
aspects of dividend program is that so                                                                                          
many children's dividends are being                                                                                             
wasted. Suggested children's permanent                                                                                          
fund dividends should be held in trust to                                                                                       
the age of majority.                                                                                                            
938                                                                                                                             
JOE GRIFFITH, CO-                                                                                                               
CHAIR, PERMANENT                                                                                                                
FUND EARNINGS PHASE                                                                                                             
II STUDY GROUP,                                                                                                                 
COMMONWEALTH NORTH                                                                                                              
Noted that he co-chaired a study group                                                                                          
considering the Permanent Fund Earnings.                                                                                        
He provided members with handout #2,                                                                                            
Commonwealth North - Permanent Fund                                                                                             
Earnings Phase II - A cornerstone for                                                                                           
fiscal certainty (copy on file).                                                                                                
1004                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Maintained that the disconnect between                                                                                          
the health of the state of Alaska's                                                                                             
economy and the funding of needed                                                                                               
services is the most difficult thing                                                                                            
faced by legislators.                                                                                                           
1067                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Noted importance of an education package.                                                                                       
Summarized proposals and recommendations                                                                                        
of the study group. Concluded that                                                                                              
permanent fund earnings must be                                                                                                 
considered as part of a total state                                                                                             
fiscal package that includes getting the                                                                                        
most from money spent for state                                                                                                 
government.                                                                                                                     
1121                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
The corpus of the Permanent Fund should                                                                                         
be fully protected by preservation of the                                                                                       
principal.                                                                                                                      
1141                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
The current individual Permanent Fund                                                                                           
Dividend Program should continue, using a                                                                                       
portion of the Permanent Fund's earnings,                                                                                       
although not necessarily on the same                                                                                            
scale.                                                                                                                          
1175                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
The biggest single departure from current                                                                                       
practice is that Commonwealth North                                                                                             
recommends using 30% of Permanent Fund                                                                                          
earnings derived from an endowment                                                                                              
concept to support state government and                                                                                         
for additional purposes as outlined                                                                                             
below. This 30% should be funneled                                                                                              
through the Constitutional Budget Reserve                                                                                       
account.                                                                                                                        
1221                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Twenty percent of the Permanent Fund's                                                                                          
earnings should be used to provide a                                                                                            
means for local communities to meet                                                                                             
capital needs. The closer that decisions                                                                                        
can be brought to the people involved,                                                                                          
the more efficient and responsive those                                                                                         
decisions will be. Creation of a                                                                                                
Community Dividend Program would meet                                                                                           
this policy objective.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ten percent of the Permanent Fund's                                                                                             
earnings should be used to fund statewide                                                                                       
capital needs and deferred maintenance                                                                                          
that provide and maintain infrastructure                                                                                        
to support economic sustainability and                                                                                          
growth.                                                                                                                         
1266                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Start state taxes at some point when                                                                                            
necessary.                                                                                                                      
1274                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Observed that calculations were based on                                                                                        
an oil price that is $7 to $8 dollars a                                                                                         
barrel lower than currently exists.                                                                                             
1309                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Noted that under their recommendations                                                                                          
the personal dividend stays about $1,000.                                                                                       
1330                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Recommended that a community dividend                                                                                           
program be created and that 20% of the                                                                                          
Permanent Fund's earnings be used by                                                                                            
local communities to meet their capital                                                                                         
needs.                                                                                                                          
1365                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Proposed support for a statewide capital                                                                                        
program using 10% of the Permanent Fund's                                                                                       
earnings.                                                                                                                       
1430                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Maintained that the plan would not                                                                                              
bankrupt the dividend. Acknowledged that                                                                                        
the dividend would be smaller.                                                                                                  
1458                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Grussendorf                                                                                                                     
Questioned why the Constitutional Budget                                                                                        
Reserve would be used.                                                                                                          
1494                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Explained that the Constitutional Budget                                                                                        
Reserve is a handy place for working                                                                                            
capital. Pointed out that their working                                                                                         
capital is needed to take up variations                                                                                         
in the price of oil.                                                                                                            
1546                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Grussendorf                                                                                                                     
Expressed concern that the Constitutional                                                                                       
Budget Reserve would be used as an easy                                                                                         
out to avoid difficult questions.                                                                                               
1573                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Acknowledged some difficulties with the                                                                                         
use of the Constitutional Budget Reserve,                                                                                       
but emphasized that it has functioned as                                                                                        
it was crafted.                                                                                                                 
1604                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Grussendorf                                                                                                                     
Pointed out that the Constitutional                                                                                             
Budget Reserve was created to provide                                                                                           
working money.                                                                                                                  
1619                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Stressed that the Constitutional Budget                                                                                         
Reserve would continue to serve its                                                                                             
purpose of allowing state access to                                                                                             
funds.                                                                                                                          
1642                                                                                                                            
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Questioned if money placed into the                                                                                             
Constitutional Budget Reserve would be                                                                                          
treated general funds.                                                                                                          
1658                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Presumed it would be invested.                                                                                                  
1671                                                                                                                            
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Referred to a market value approach.                                                                                            
1740                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Noted that the members would be hearing                                                                                         
more about market value approach in the                                                                                         
future.                                                                                                                         
1756                                                                                                                            
Representative G.                                                                                                               
Davis                                                                                                                           
Stated that he would like to see the                                                                                            
Community Dividend Program included.  He                                                                                        
asked what is the right thing to do                                                                                             
versus the correct political thing to do.                                                                                       
He thought that state resources should be                                                                                       
shared with the municipalities.                                                                                                 
1820                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Phillips                                                                                                                        
Spoke to inflation proofing and the total                                                                                       
earnings and agreed with the market                                                                                             
approach.                                                                                                                       
1837                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Foster                                                                                                                          
Stated that he appreciated the testimony.                                                                                       
He noted that no one from Bush Alaska was                                                                                       
included in the Commonwealth North study                                                                                        
group. He asked if there was an attempt                                                                                         
to get individuals outside of Anchorage                                                                                         
involved.                                                                                                                       
1892                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Stated that there was not adequate time                                                                                         
last spring to reach that individuals in                                                                                        
rural Alaska. He acknowledged that                                                                                              
Representative Foster had a valid                                                                                               
complaint.  He assured members that they                                                                                        
were trying their best to represent rural                                                                                       
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
1954                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Foster                                                                                                                          
Offered to help find a rural                                                                                                    
representative.                                                                                                                 
1963                                                                                                                            
Vice Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Stated that the municipalities have held                                                                                        
people immune from the reductions. He                                                                                           
stated that there is a disconnect.                                                                                              
People have not felt the impact of a                                                                                            
reduction in revenue sharing. He stated                                                                                         
that he was having a difficult time                                                                                             
understanding that complaint. Pointed out                                                                                       
that taxes go up and the economy goes                                                                                           
down. He asked the impact of any change.                                                                                        
2043                                                                                                                            
Mr. Griffith                                                                                                                    
Noted that the issue has been debated at                                                                                        
length.  The general consensus throughout                                                                                       
the group was that it was better to take                                                                                        
some portion for the local government                                                                                           
good than to put in the pocket of the                                                                                           
individuals. In the long run the greater                                                                                        
good would be served that way. Pointed                                                                                          
out that there could be problems because                                                                                        
transitions are always difficult.                                                                                               
2106                                                                                                                            
Representative Moses                                                                                                            
Noted that the public did not dream up                                                                                          
the issue of "no taxes". Maintained that                                                                                        
politicians are the ones that have                                                                                              
created the situation. Stressed that the                                                                                        
damage is done. He spoke to the municipal                                                                                       
dividend. It is important to take into                                                                                          
consideration that Alaskan wages are                                                                                            
being taken out of state without being                                                                                          
taxed.                                                                                                                          
2216                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Phillips                                                                                                                        
Agreed with comments by Representative                                                                                          
Moses. She noted that a lot of                                                                                                  
legislators are not interested in a long-                                                                                       
range plan.                                                                                                                     
2240                                                                                                                            
Vice Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Expanded that it is an educational                                                                                              
challenge to gain approval for a long-                                                                                          
range plan.                                                                                                                     
2269                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Commonwealth North recognizes the need                                                                                          
for a long-range plan. The dilemma is to                                                                                        
present it to others. The reports focus                                                                                         
on mechanisms that can be used.                                                                                                 
Commonwealth North recognized the need to                                                                                       
talk about the political reality. Pointed                                                                                       
out that their plan has something for                                                                                           
everyone. Stressed that the public vote                                                                                         
was not addressed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE CHANGE, HFC 00                                                                                                             
- 32, SIDE 1                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
65                                                                                                                              
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
As long as the responsibility is deferred                                                                                       
to a vote of the people it is unrealistic                                                                                       
to find a plan.                                                                                                                 
107                                                                                                                             
Representative                                                                                                                  
Phillips                                                                                                                        
Questioned if Commonwealth North has                                                                                            
plans to lobby legislators.                                                                                                     
130                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Noted that they are encouraging that                                                                                            
activity. Pointed out that the political                                                                                        
reality is that it is an election year                                                                                          
and it is unlikely that there would be                                                                                          
action.                                                                                                                         
178                                                                                                                             
Representative                                                                                                                  
Grussendorf                                                                                                                     
Pointed out that Alaska Marine Highway                                                                                          
System users pay 50 percent of the cost                                                                                         
of operation.                                                                                                                   
308                                                                                                                             
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Stressed that the "no" vote by the public                                                                                       
came for a variety of reasons. He                                                                                               
stressed that there were people that                                                                                            
voted no because there were no taxes                                                                                            
included or they felt that it adversely                                                                                         
affected rural areas.                                                                                                           
433                                                                                                                             
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Noted that a "yes or no" choice is not                                                                                          
necessarily a variable option.                                                                                                  
598                                                                                                                             
Representative Moses                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
626                                                                                                                             
Vice Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Acknowledged that there were lots of                                                                                            
reasons for the "no" vote but that in the                                                                                       
face of a negative vote that it is                                                                                              
difficult to act otherwise.                                                                                                     
762                                                                                                                             
Representative Moses                                                                                                            
Suggested that legislators allow voters                                                                                         
to decide what services should not be                                                                                           
provided.                                                                                                                       
783                                                                                                                             
Co-Chair Therriault                                                                                                             
Observed that there are a lot of services                                                                                       
that the state provides for local                                                                                               
governments without credit. Pointed out                                                                                         
that there are things that local                                                                                                
municipalities cannot do. He gave                                                                                               
examples of state supported services.                                                                                           
926                                                                                                                             
Representative Moses                                                                                                            
Agreed, but maintained that there are                                                                                           
things that the state can stop doing such                                                                                       
as maintaining streets. Maintained that                                                                                         
money should be given directly to the                                                                                           
municipalities.                                                                                                                 
1062                                                                                                                            
Ms. Usera                                                                                                                       
Thanked committee, next report a study of                                                                                       
rural/urban issues that will focus on                                                                                           
unity issues.                                                                                                                   
1117                                                                                                                            
Vice Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The meeting adjourned at 3:45 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                                         
LOG NOTES                                                                                                                       
February 10, 2000                                                                                                               
House Finance Committee 1 02/10/00                                                                                              

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